<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: RS/MP Lesson 11: “Revelation from God to His Children” (George Albert Smith Manual)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/</link>
	<description>A blog focused on LDS scriptures and teaching</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 17:57:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: RS/MP Lesson 15: &#8220;Advancing the Work of the Lord&#8221; (George Albert Smith Manual) &#171; Feast upon the Word Blog</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-42053</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RS/MP Lesson 15: &#8220;Advancing the Work of the Lord&#8221; (George Albert Smith Manual) &#171; Feast upon the Word Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-42053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] have talked about this in a lesson a few weeks ago, but I really worry that we have a tendency to think that contemplating the doctrines of the gospel [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have talked about this in a lesson a few weeks ago, but I really worry that we have a tendency to think that contemplating the doctrines of the gospel [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Juan Carlos Martinez-Alferes.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-40526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juan Carlos Martinez-Alferes.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-40526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Revelation, knowledge, temporal happines, salvation. is Revelation knowledge? The purpose of the lesson is to deliver a dose of spiritual knowledge about the benefit of revelation in our lives. Then, revelation is spiritual knowledge, not &quot;common&quot; knowledge as we might think. What is spiritual knowledge defined? Is inspiration knowledge similar to revelation knowledge? are both, inspirational and revelation knowledges spiritual knowledges.?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revelation, knowledge, temporal happines, salvation. is Revelation knowledge? The purpose of the lesson is to deliver a dose of spiritual knowledge about the benefit of revelation in our lives. Then, revelation is spiritual knowledge, not &#8220;common&#8221; knowledge as we might think. What is spiritual knowledge defined? Is inspiration knowledge similar to revelation knowledge? are both, inspirational and revelation knowledges spiritual knowledges.?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert C.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-40470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 19:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-40470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To add to my comment above, and tie this idea to the lesson, I think this notion of &quot;seizing knowledge&quot; is related to Job, and the lesson more generally, as follows.

The idea of seizing knowledge is, as Jenny nicely explains, related to  the idea of ownership. When we own something, we control it. A related problem forms the central theme of Job: humans like to &quot;control&quot; God by reducing a conception of God&#039;s justice to simplistic cause-and-effect logic. That is, the central question is whether the righteous are blessed or not. The message of the Book of Job, IMHO is that this question is more complicated than a simple, naive answer of &lt;i&gt;yes&lt;/i&gt; would suggest&#8212;that is, sometimes the righteous suffer, and Job is an attempt to give some explanation for why it is that the righteous suffer.

Now, what does this have to do with revelation, the theme of this lesson? Well, I&#039;d say that revelation (and the related concept of knowledge) cannot be controlled in the same way. That is, revelation and knowledge (including the knowledge of why the righteous suffer) cannot be seized and possessed and controlled. We must &quot;wait on the Lord,&quot; as the scriptures say, meaning that we must endure and be patient when we do not have knowledge, and when revelation isn&#039;t immediate. This implies that we must &lt;i&gt;seek after&lt;/i&gt; knowledge, and desire it, showing that we really want it, and persevering through the times that we don&#039;t have it (which is pretty much our whole lives!).

Or something like that....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To add to my comment above, and tie this idea to the lesson, I think this notion of &#8220;seizing knowledge&#8221; is related to Job, and the lesson more generally, as follows.</p>
<p>The idea of seizing knowledge is, as Jenny nicely explains, related to  the idea of ownership. When we own something, we control it. A related problem forms the central theme of Job: humans like to &#8220;control&#8221; God by reducing a conception of God&#8217;s justice to simplistic cause-and-effect logic. That is, the central question is whether the righteous are blessed or not. The message of the Book of Job, IMHO is that this question is more complicated than a simple, naive answer of <i>yes</i> would suggest&mdash;that is, sometimes the righteous suffer, and Job is an attempt to give some explanation for why it is that the righteous suffer.</p>
<p>Now, what does this have to do with revelation, the theme of this lesson? Well, I&#8217;d say that revelation (and the related concept of knowledge) cannot be controlled in the same way. That is, revelation and knowledge (including the knowledge of why the righteous suffer) cannot be seized and possessed and controlled. We must &#8220;wait on the Lord,&#8221; as the scriptures say, meaning that we must endure and be patient when we do not have knowledge, and when revelation isn&#8217;t immediate. This implies that we must <i>seek after</i> knowledge, and desire it, showing that we really want it, and persevering through the times that we don&#8217;t have it (which is pretty much our whole lives!).</p>
<p>Or something like that&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert C.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-40465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 16:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-40465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Prometheus, I should cite my source for this idea, now that I remember. It&#039;s from an essay Jenny Webb wrote in the book &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.saltpress.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;An Experiment on the Word&lt;/a&gt; (downloadable &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.saltpress.org/Experiment%20on%20the%20Word.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;). Regarding Alma 32, Webb writes on pp. 48-49:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Following his discussion of sign seeking, Alma returns to the topic of faith in verse 21: “And now as I said concerning faith faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.” While this verse is often cited as a “definition” of faith, re-reading it in light of its possible Edenic connections may help us read the familiar verse more carefully. The first thing that Alma says about faith here is not what it is, but rather what it is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt;: it is not to have a perfect knowledge. The use of the phrase “to have” here is particularly interesting. Why does Alma use that additional verb rather than stating things more simply as “faith is not a perfect knowledge”? The equation is not simply faith [does not equal] perfect knowledge, but rather faith [does not equal] &lt;i&gt;having&lt;/i&gt; perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is thus cast in terms of possession, a thing capable of being had (or held) by an individual.

One of the prominent characteristics of the narrative of the Fall is the emphasis on the theme of possession. Eve explains to Satan that she and Adam are not only not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but they are not even to touch it (see Moses 4:9). When Eve does eat the fruit we read that “she &lt;i&gt;took&lt;/i&gt; of the fruit thereof” (Moses 4:12; my emphasis), a subtle reminder that she holds the fruit in her hands both to eat and, additionally, to pass to Adam. In other words, a component of the transgression may lie in the actual act of holding, possessing, and then ingesting the fruit of the tree of knowledge. And, given its appearance in Eden itself, such fruit can itself be seen as perfect, not fallen: for a moment, then, Eve and Adam literally possessed and consumed perfect knowledge. The consequence of this action, if we follow Alma, would be the absence of faith, a condition fundamentally impossible within the Edenic reality, and thus their removal from the Garden. It appears, then, that Alma’s description of faith as “not to &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; a perfect knowledge” (my emphasis) is possibly quite literal on one level: the state of having faith cannot co-exist with the state of having perfect knowledge. However, given that we already live in the fallen world, the consequence of possessing perfect knowledge is not another fall, but rather the simple absence of faith itself.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prometheus, I should cite my source for this idea, now that I remember. It&#8217;s from an essay Jenny Webb wrote in the book <a href="http://www.saltpress.org/" rel="nofollow">An Experiment on the Word</a> (downloadable <a href="http://www.saltpress.org/Experiment%20on%20the%20Word.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>). Regarding Alma 32, Webb writes on pp. 48-49:</p>
<blockquote><p>Following his discussion of sign seeking, Alma returns to the topic of faith in verse 21: “And now as I said concerning faith faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.” While this verse is often cited as a “definition” of faith, re-reading it in light of its possible Edenic connections may help us read the familiar verse more carefully. The first thing that Alma says about faith here is not what it is, but rather what it is <i>not</i>: it is not to have a perfect knowledge. The use of the phrase “to have” here is particularly interesting. Why does Alma use that additional verb rather than stating things more simply as “faith is not a perfect knowledge”? The equation is not simply faith [does not equal] perfect knowledge, but rather faith [does not equal] <i>having</i> perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is thus cast in terms of possession, a thing capable of being had (or held) by an individual.</p>
<p>One of the prominent characteristics of the narrative of the Fall is the emphasis on the theme of possession. Eve explains to Satan that she and Adam are not only not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but they are not even to touch it (see Moses 4:9). When Eve does eat the fruit we read that “she <i>took</i> of the fruit thereof” (Moses 4:12; my emphasis), a subtle reminder that she holds the fruit in her hands both to eat and, additionally, to pass to Adam. In other words, a component of the transgression may lie in the actual act of holding, possessing, and then ingesting the fruit of the tree of knowledge. And, given its appearance in Eden itself, such fruit can itself be seen as perfect, not fallen: for a moment, then, Eve and Adam literally possessed and consumed perfect knowledge. The consequence of this action, if we follow Alma, would be the absence of faith, a condition fundamentally impossible within the Edenic reality, and thus their removal from the Garden. It appears, then, that Alma’s description of faith as “not to <i>have</i> a perfect knowledge” (my emphasis) is possibly quite literal on one level: the state of having faith cannot co-exist with the state of having perfect knowledge. However, given that we already live in the fallen world, the consequence of possessing perfect knowledge is not another fall, but rather the simple absence of faith itself.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kirkcaudle</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-40423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kirkcaudle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 10:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-40423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent post here Robert. You really hit the nail on the head with your comments regarding 2 Ne. 32:7. We, as a church, are in trouble once we ditch &quot;thinking&quot; and begin solely relying on &quot;feelings.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post here Robert. You really hit the nail on the head with your comments regarding 2 Ne. 32:7. We, as a church, are in trouble once we ditch &#8220;thinking&#8221; and begin solely relying on &#8220;feelings.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: prometheus</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-40413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[prometheus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 02:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-40413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really like your thoughts on experiencing truth as opposed to obtaining it. I will ponder that over the next few days - never thought of it like that before. :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like your thoughts on experiencing truth as opposed to obtaining it. I will ponder that over the next few days &#8211; never thought of it like that before. :D</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert C.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2012/06/06/rsmp-lesson-11-revelation-from-god-to-his-children-george-albert-smith-manual/#comment-40402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=3963#comment-40402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a P.S., I found &lt;a href=&quot;http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/06/25/when-our-leaders-speak-the-thinking-has-been-done/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post at the BCC blog&lt;/a&gt; very interesting, and in line with a main point I was emphasizing in the lesson above. It&#039;s a letter Pres. Smith wrote in response to a question about the commonly quoted idea that &quot;when our leaders speak the thinking has been done,&quot; which Pres. Smith. Here&#039;s a teaser quote from Pres. Smith&#039;s response letter:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I am pleased to assure you that you are right in your attitude that the passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the Gospel, must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation, and is personally responsible to His Maker for his individual acts. The Lord Himself does not attempt coercion in His desire and effort to give peace and salvation to His children. He gives the principles of life and true progress, but leaves every person free to choose or to reject His teachings. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to follow.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a P.S., I found <a href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/06/25/when-our-leaders-speak-the-thinking-has-been-done/" rel="nofollow">this post at the BCC blog</a> very interesting, and in line with a main point I was emphasizing in the lesson above. It&#8217;s a letter Pres. Smith wrote in response to a question about the commonly quoted idea that &#8220;when our leaders speak the thinking has been done,&#8221; which Pres. Smith. Here&#8217;s a teaser quote from Pres. Smith&#8217;s response letter:</p>
<blockquote><p>I am pleased to assure you that you are right in your attitude that the passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the Gospel, must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation, and is personally responsible to His Maker for his individual acts. The Lord Himself does not attempt coercion in His desire and effort to give peace and salvation to His children. He gives the principles of life and true progress, but leaves every person free to choose or to reject His teachings. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to follow.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
