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	<title>Comments on: Joy to the World</title>
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	<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2009/12/23/joy-to-the-world/</link>
	<description>A blog focused on LDS scriptures and teaching</description>
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		<title>By: joespencer</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2009/12/23/joy-to-the-world/#comment-29664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joespencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I was talking to Rob, sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking to Rob, sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: KirkC</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2009/12/23/joy-to-the-world/#comment-29662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KirkC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&quot;wonder if what you’re spelling out here&quot;

Who is the &quot;you&#039;re&quot; you are refering to Joe?  Are you responding to the OP, or to one of us?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;wonder if what you’re spelling out here&#8221;</p>
<p>Who is the &#8220;you&#8217;re&#8221; you are refering to Joe?  Are you responding to the OP, or to one of us?</p>
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		<title>By: joespencer</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2009/12/23/joy-to-the-world/#comment-29661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joespencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=1173#comment-29661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really like this. Without getting too academic, I will say that one of the things I really like about (French) psychoanalysis is the way it problematizes precisely this notion: &quot;joy&quot; (in French, &lt;i&gt;jouissance&lt;/i&gt;). In short, its problematization amounts to an entanglement of every experience of joy within a framework of imposed law. Of course, psychoanalysis, seeing itself as interminable more than terminable, does not see a way to liberate joy from this entanglement with law--at least not in any direct sense. But by tying joy to grace, and by noting the relationship between grace and law, I wonder if what you&#039;re spelling out here might allow us to recognize grace as being precisely what releases joy from its enslavement to law: to be in grace is finally to enjoy the work, rather than always to be working so as to save oneself, slaving for salvation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like this. Without getting too academic, I will say that one of the things I really like about (French) psychoanalysis is the way it problematizes precisely this notion: &#8220;joy&#8221; (in French, <i>jouissance</i>). In short, its problematization amounts to an entanglement of every experience of joy within a framework of imposed law. Of course, psychoanalysis, seeing itself as interminable more than terminable, does not see a way to liberate joy from this entanglement with law&#8211;at least not in any direct sense. But by tying joy to grace, and by noting the relationship between grace and law, I wonder if what you&#8217;re spelling out here might allow us to recognize grace as being precisely what releases joy from its enslavement to law: to be in grace is finally to enjoy the work, rather than always to be working so as to save oneself, slaving for salvation.</p>
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		<title>By: KirkC</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2009/12/23/joy-to-the-world/#comment-29450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KirkC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=1173#comment-29450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, there are many ways to look at joy, and you have both done a fine job of laying out definitions for the word. One way I like to look at joy, is in terms of “freedom” or “deliverance” from bondage. Joy is not being trapped somewhere you do not want to be. 

In Luke 2:10 an angel says, “Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”  From this, we know one of the missions of Jesus was to bring joy to the world.  In verse 11, the angel explains how that happens.  The angel says, “born this day…a saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”

Luke 2:11 is the only verse that I know of (but I am wrong all of the time) that uses the three major offices of Jesus in succession: Savior, Christ, Lord.

We might look at it like this:
Savior=Deliverer
Lord=Master
Christ=Anointed King

So what is the great “joy” that is coming into the world?  It is the Savior, or deliverer.  He can deliver us from bondage.  So when I think about joy, I think about being free from whatever ties me down, or keeps me from where I want to be.  Maybe that is why nobody is joyful when they are drug addicted or in jail.  Joy is incompatible with bondage. 

Grace is then simply a free gift from God to release one from bondage, thus bringing one joy.  Of course, exaltation is the ultimately joy, because there is found the ultimate freedom from bondage and a maximum amount of grace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, there are many ways to look at joy, and you have both done a fine job of laying out definitions for the word. One way I like to look at joy, is in terms of “freedom” or “deliverance” from bondage. Joy is not being trapped somewhere you do not want to be. </p>
<p>In Luke 2:10 an angel says, “Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”  From this, we know one of the missions of Jesus was to bring joy to the world.  In verse 11, the angel explains how that happens.  The angel says, “born this day…a saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”</p>
<p>Luke 2:11 is the only verse that I know of (but I am wrong all of the time) that uses the three major offices of Jesus in succession: Savior, Christ, Lord.</p>
<p>We might look at it like this:<br />
Savior=Deliverer<br />
Lord=Master<br />
Christ=Anointed King</p>
<p>So what is the great “joy” that is coming into the world?  It is the Savior, or deliverer.  He can deliver us from bondage.  So when I think about joy, I think about being free from whatever ties me down, or keeps me from where I want to be.  Maybe that is why nobody is joyful when they are drug addicted or in jail.  Joy is incompatible with bondage. </p>
<p>Grace is then simply a free gift from God to release one from bondage, thus bringing one joy.  Of course, exaltation is the ultimately joy, because there is found the ultimate freedom from bondage and a maximum amount of grace.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert C.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2009/12/23/joy-to-the-world/#comment-29393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/?p=1173#comment-29393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rob, I like this a lot. 

I remember a related idea being expressed by some General Authority during a mission conference where we discussed the various meanings of the preposition &quot;of&quot; in the phrase &quot;the pure love of Christ&quot; in Moroni 7:47. His suggestions was that it implied at least 3 meanings: our love toward Christ, his love toward us, and his love toward everyone (i.e., Christ-like love). What I think is so interesting, however, is how love, grace and joy are synergistic, if you&#039;ll excuse the Coveyism here. In Shakespeare&#039; terms, love (like mercy) is &quot;twice blessed: it blesseth him that gives and him that takes&quot; (Merchant of Venice). I think the symbolism of the sacrament---i.e., &lt;i&gt;communion&lt;/i&gt;---should be understood this way, Christ first giving(/loving in 1 John) to us, and blessing us, but then when we receive this gift gratefully, we are both blessed by the love being offered, and offering a kind of blessing to Christ by receiving this gift.

I&#039;ve been thinking about this double-nature of love, joy and mercy largely because these multiplicative effects are all  overlooked in typical economic thought. I think psychologists (and, thus, behavioral economists) have started to think about these kinds of effects, but I think sacred/religious writing and thought is far and away the best source for thinking about these effects, in contradistinction to secular thought. And I think this is one of the reasons that secular thought is so blind to the dangers of sexual promiscuity and desensitization (as sex becomes absorbed into consumer/economic culture, away from sacred, familial and religious roles and significance...).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, I like this a lot. </p>
<p>I remember a related idea being expressed by some General Authority during a mission conference where we discussed the various meanings of the preposition &#8220;of&#8221; in the phrase &#8220;the pure love of Christ&#8221; in Moroni 7:47. His suggestions was that it implied at least 3 meanings: our love toward Christ, his love toward us, and his love toward everyone (i.e., Christ-like love). What I think is so interesting, however, is how love, grace and joy are synergistic, if you&#8217;ll excuse the Coveyism here. In Shakespeare&#8217; terms, love (like mercy) is &#8220;twice blessed: it blesseth him that gives and him that takes&#8221; (Merchant of Venice). I think the symbolism of the sacrament&#8212;i.e., <i>communion</i>&#8212;should be understood this way, Christ first giving(/loving in 1 John) to us, and blessing us, but then when we receive this gift gratefully, we are both blessed by the love being offered, and offering a kind of blessing to Christ by receiving this gift.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about this double-nature of love, joy and mercy largely because these multiplicative effects are all  overlooked in typical economic thought. I think psychologists (and, thus, behavioral economists) have started to think about these kinds of effects, but I think sacred/religious writing and thought is far and away the best source for thinking about these effects, in contradistinction to secular thought. And I think this is one of the reasons that secular thought is so blind to the dangers of sexual promiscuity and desensitization (as sex becomes absorbed into consumer/economic culture, away from sacred, familial and religious roles and significance&#8230;).</p>
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