Comments on: RS/MP Lesson 46: “The Martyrdom: The Prophet Seals His Testimony with His Blood” (Joseph Smith Manual)

By: Alyssa

Alyssa — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:20:27 +0000

Thanks, Joe. You’ve really helped me to generate some thoughts for my upcoming Relief Society lesson on this chapter. I struggle with a few of these lessons sometimes because (initially, at least) they sometimes feel like they do “speak for themselves,” as you put it. Because of that, I sometimes find it difficult to find discussion points in the lesson. But you’ve given me some great food for thought that would be good to discuss with my fellow sisters. Thanks for spurring on my thinking. (And thanks for reminding me of the reference to this moment in Elder Holland’s recent address. Pure teaching gold!) :)

By: joespencer

joespencer — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:18:19 +0000

Thanks, Jim. I should have said "without conclusive evidence."

By: Jim F.

Jim F. — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:24:52 +0000

Joe, as you always do, you give us more good things than we can chew at one sitting. But I disagree mildly with one thing you say: we are expected to trust figures like Brigham Young, Parley Pratt, and Wilford Woodruff, without evidence. That seems too strong. I don't have certainty, but I do have evidence. I have, for example, the character of Brigham Young and the witness to that character by those who knew him. I have the fact that the majority of the saints followed him. There is considerable evidence, but not evidence that is by itself convincing. I assume that is probably what you mean.

By: joespencer

joespencer — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:00:18 +0000

Tom, thanks! I did indeed mean injuries. Now I’ll be wondering what that Freudian slip meant….

I agree that we should seek our own testimonies that the current prophet is really called of God, but I think that still means we continue in faith, though the tangle between faith and knowledge is a topic for another time. :)

By: Tom D

Tom D — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:09:55 +0000

When describing Elder Taylor’s injuries received in the Carthage Jail you say that he “had sustained very serious ERRORS”. I think you meant INJURIES.

This is a nice, thoughtful post. I particularly agree with the still current importance of apostolic success. However, I would point out that we do not have to take the truth of this only on faith. We can and should seek individual testimonies of this. At the least we should seek our own testimony that the current prophet (Thomas S. Monson now) really is called of God.

By: Post on Joseph Smith lesson 46: “The Martyrdom: The Prophet Seals His Testimony with His Blood” « WHAT? Joe's working on

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:19:02 +0000

[...] Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. And with that, let me move on to the “Teachings.” Read the rest of this entry » at feastuponthewordblog.org Leave a Comment No Comments Yet so far Leave a comment RSS feed [...]

By: BrianJ

BrianJ — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:49:41 +0000

Joe, that is an interesting way to interpret the statement “required [to] seal his testimony with his blood.” I never liked that statement because, frankly, it made no sense (how I and others read it): why should whether someone is martyred or not reflect on the truthfulness of their mission? I don’t have any plans to be martyred; does that mean my life will ultimately be a farce?

So I really like how you change the interpretation of this quote, though I confess that maybe I like it so much because it saves me from having to deal with the standard interpretation rather than liking it because it is, in fact, what Woodruff (and John Taylor) meant.