Also, Kevin’s comment #2 and bfwebster’s comment #4 suggest interesting alternate theories….

joshua: The murder they committed I’m sure is different for each individual converted, but we mainly here from Lamoni and his father in regard to murder. Lamoni had his servants killed for failing to protect his sheep. There is a sense from the scriptures that the warfare the Lamanites brought on the Nephites was out of hatred for the Nephites and is likely judged differently than when a nation is fighting in defense (which is another topic that has been discussed at length on this blog). I have always imagined the Lamanites felt guilt either over the wars/deaths they had caused personally or a collective guilt for the wars the Lamanites had brought against the Nephites.

The discussion regarding murder interests me, of course.

One thing that has really come home to me teaching the BOM this time: the BOM is NOT EASY. Not simple. sometimes we get such a small part of the picture – we really don’t know what was going on, exactly . . .

Now, I will just continue to listen in . . .

but define murder in the context of the Anti-Nephi-Lehites. What did they do that was murder? Was it warfare? Killing the neighbor? I get a sense the murder they felt they did was the same as any nation does in warfare.

Karl: The following question from your notes is absolutely brilliant:

If they are born again and new creatures in Christ then aren’t their past actions irrelevant in terms of how they behave going forward? Why or why not?

I also appreciate what you say about the meaning of the name “Anti-Nephi-Lehi.” I think the safest conclusion is that “Anti” doesn’t mean “anti”—and leave it at that.

joshua madson: “…because they are so evil or so different from ourselves. Perhaps they are more like us then we imagine.” Perhaps we should read how our enemies describe us, and compare that to how the Nephites described the Lamanites. I’m guessing that the Lamanites were very much like us.

And Karl D, we’d love to see the rest of your notes, regardless of format.

Thanks Michele. My lesson 26 notes are available in full at my blog:

Link to my Lesson 26 Notes

The link is actually in my original comment but it is kind of obscured by the rest of the comment so you may have missed it.

Is this killing the neighbor or the murder that occurs in war? It seems it had to do with weapons of war. In which way then would their actions be any different than the Nephites or any nation for that matter?

I find it interesting that we always dismiss their covenant to bury their weapons as something unique to them because they are so evil or so different from ourselves. Perhaps they are more like us then we imagine.

After one is baptized and accepted the Gospel, one can then not be forgiven for shedding innocent blood, much like David. He may repent all he wants, but lost his position in the Celestial Kingdom. D&C 132:39.

2) Why the name anti-Nephite-Lehites?

I am subbing for most of the month of July and I discussed that question at least to some extent in my notes: Lesson 26 Notes. Here is my relevant portion (although the formatting isn’t great here):

* Read Alma 23:16-18:

(16) And now it came to pass that the king and those who were converted were desirous that they might have a name, that thereby they might be distinguished from their brethren; therefore the king consulted with Aaron and many of their priests, concerning the name that they should take upon them, that they might be distinguished. (17) And it came to pass that they called their names Anti-Nephi-Lehies; and they were called by this name and were no more called Lamanites. (18) And they began to be a very industrious people; yea, and they were friendly with the Nephites; therefore, they did open a correspondence with them, and the curse of God did no more follow them.

* First, I don’t think anyone really knows what “Anti-Nephi-Lehies” means. I suspect we will never have a convincing answer. However, its probably worth noting that Royal Skousen indicates that it is all one non-hyphenated word in the original and printer’s manuscript. So the hyphens were probably introduced by E.B. Grandin.

* Second, do you think the meaning of Anti-Nephi-Lehi is important or is it more important that they have a new name that distinguishes them?

* The goal of the new name is to be “distinguished from their brethren?” Who are the “brethren” in this passage? The Lamanites or the Nephites? Both? Is this an important textual clue in terms of understanding what Anti-Nephi-Lehi might mean?

* Chapter 23 makes multiple references to brethren. Verse 3 indicates that one goal of the missionary program was to convince the Lamanites that they were all brethren. Verse 7 also uses the word “brethren”: “they did not fight against God any more, neither against any of their brethren.” Thus the chapter has a pretty expansive use of the word “brethren.” It seems to include both the Nephites and Lamanites. I think verse 7 may be just referring to the Nephites as brethren. Thus I do think the Anti-Nephi-Lehies want to distinguish themselves from both the Lamanites and the Nephites. Why would they want to distinguish themselves from the Nephites?

* What are some possibilities in terms of the meaning of the word “Anti-Nephi-Lehies?”

1. The lineage of Lehi but not from Nephi’s lineage: Anti-Nephi Lehi.

2. Some (including Nibley) have argued that anti could mean mirror image. So in that case Anti-Nephi-Lehies would refer to those who imitate the Nephites.

3. Nephi-Lehi could designate the territory or kingdom of Lehi-Nephi. The converts are against or stand in opposition to the kingdom of Lehi-Nephi which is comprised of uncoverted Lamanites, Amulonites, etc.

4. Anti could be an untranslated proper noun. Anti does show up in multiple Book of Mormon names (think, Antipas).

* Also, the name doesn’t appear to last very long. Just a few chapters later they are called the people of Ammon. Read Alma 27:26-27:

(26) … And they went down into the land of Jershon, and took possession of the land of Jershon; and they were called by the Nephites the people of Ammon; therefore they were distinguished by that name ever after. (27) And they were among the people of Nephi, and also numbered among the people who were of the church of God. And they were also distinguished for their zeal towards God, and also towards men; for they were perfectly honest and upright in all things; and they were firm in the faith of Christ, even unto the end.

* Why are they now called the people of Ammon? What has changed?

* Did Anti-Nephi-Lehi’s really change their name internally or did only the Nephite name for them change?

* Do this name change help answer the question of whether knowing the meaning of the word “Anti-Nephi-Lehi” is important?

Jim F. also discuss the name a bit in his notes as well: Jim F.’s Lesson 26 Notes

1) If murder is an unforgivable sin, how did the anti-Nephite-Lehites get forgiven of their murders?

2) Why the name anti-Nephite-Lehites?

And here’s a funny story told to me by a class member after class on Sunday. When he was at BYU there was some controversy about the length of LDS women’s shorts, especially as they attended meetings at one of the locations there (Marriott Center? Not being a BYU grad, I forget). So, bumper stickers were printed: Anti-Knee-hi-Levies.

Only in Mormondom ….