Comments on: BoM Lesson 19 (Mosiah 18-24)

By: RuthS

RuthS — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:26:54 +0000

JennyW #2 With regard the reason behind the Lamanites putting Amulon in charge, it seems you make a good point. The Lamanite rulers obviously knew who Amulon was and the status he had in the culture. It was known that he was an authority figure and one who had done what Noah wanted and would therefore serve well. It has not been uncommon for dictators and other rulers to put a member of a dissident group or just a group perceived to be a danger in charge of something. This gives that community a feeling of belonging and pride in the person who has been elevated to the service of the head man. They then become more oppressive than someone else might become simply because they want to please those they serve. It makes it possible for the real oppressors to look benevolent while at the same time remaining as cruel as they think they need to be in order to meet their ends.

It is pretty clear that the Lamanites didn’t want any of the people from the city of Nephi to escape. To receive a tribute of one half of all their property annually is much harsher than the 20% Noah exacted in taxes. It might be a stretch but maybe there is something akin to the Stockholm Syndrome at work here. The people from the city of Nephi have a better chance of survival if they cooperate with their captors than they do in the wilderness. That being the case it is better to see the Lamanites as more benevolent than Amulon as he is the most immediate danger.

By: Robert C.

Robert C. — Sat, 31 May 2008 16:40:35 +0000

Jenny (and others), thanks for posting these thoughts and questions. Also, I think your handout is esp. helpful---I tried drawing this on the board during my lesson, and it got very, very messy. (Also, as a reminder to myself, I didn't include anything from chapters 23-24 where the Lamanites catch up to Alma and his little band and their burdens being made light before they escape to Zarahemla in my little summary here....)

By: robf

robf — Tue, 27 May 2008 15:32:28 +0000

Also note that Zeniff was hesitant to kill the Lamanites after he “saw that which was good among them” (Mosiah 9:1).

By: JennyW

JennyW — Mon, 26 May 2008 21:00:38 +0000

JWL, you are right, of course, concerning the popular Nephite opinion of the Lamanites at the time. I should have been more careful in my speculations. I meant to imply that there is at least some textual evidence for the possibility of understanding the Lamanites differently from the popular perception, and that Alma the younger and the sons of Mosiah possibly reached a sympathetic view of the Lamanites after their conversion experiences in part as a reaction against that pervasive opinion (or, in part, because they were able to see past the negative stereotypes and into the human-ness behind the stories of the people of LImhi and Alma). It is a common pattern in conversion to, following conversion/forgiveness, desire to share that experience with others, even ones enemies (Enos comes to mind). I think the possibility that Alma the younger was alive and persecuted by Amulon’s children, who would have been half Lamanite given Amulon’s marriage to one of the Lamanite maidens, is interesting given the specific direction of Lamanite-oriented missionary work under Alma the younger’s high priestship.

By: JWL

JWL — Mon, 26 May 2008 16:27:13 +0000

Jenny –

I would not be quite so generous about Nephite attitudes toward the Lamanites in the generation of Alma the younger. See Alma 26:23-35 where Ammon son of Mosiah describes a very strong anti-Lamanite prejudice among the Nephites.

By: JennyW

JennyW — Mon, 26 May 2008 04:00:23 +0000

Nathan, those are good questions—I don’t have any definitive answers, but my impression is that the Lamanite king allowed Zeniff and his people to take possession of the land perhaps with the intent to extract some kind of tax or gain from them in the future. I think there are verses that point in that direction at least. But of course, those verses are coming from non-Lamanite sources and with the history of these chapters (where the Lamanites did “keep” the Nephites in order to take advantage of them and their goods) had already passed. If we had the Lamanite record, that original decision might be cast in a different light.

With regards to Amulon and the priests teaching the Lamanites, if I remember right it seemed like those verses mentioned how excited the Lamanites were to be able to essentially strengthen and grow their economy based off of what they learned. And putting Amulon in charge of the captured Nephites (Alma’s group) did make sense—who better to understand Nephite culture and know how to take advantage of them, motivate (or persecute) them, and hopefully prevent their escape than one of their own?

You’re right that the book of Alma will feature many Lamanite conversions—I think it’s interesting how these chapters set the stage for that. Essentially by the end of chapter 24, everyone ends up back in Zarahemla. It’s not unlikely that the sons of Mosiah and Alma the Younger were children during these events and heard stories of the Lamanites as they were growing up. And, even though there were many conflicts with them, it’s also not likely that they heard purely negative stories about the Lamanites—the conflicts seemed to be based more on miscommunication, cultural conflict, and economic desires than on an overriding desire to eradicate all the Nephites, and in this context, or at least in the text we have, there do seem to be positive undercurrents shall we say in the description of the Lamanites. It would make sense that the sons of Mosiah would desire to share the gospel with these people—they know about them, they’re peripherally connected to them through recent history, and based off of that history, there are indications they’d make good converts. Which, as you point out, they generally do.

By: NathanG

NathanG — Mon, 26 May 2008 01:37:22 +0000

Jenny,
I like your thoughts about the Lamanites during this time period. I was reading about the priests of Noah and how they were appointed to be teachers to the Lamanites (mentioned just prior to Amulon persecuting Alma in Helam). Why were the Lamanites so interested in Nephites teaching them? Why did the Lamanites also allow Zeniff to take posession of the land? The hatred that Laman and Lemuel and the early Lamanites had for the Nephites seems to have faded over the 400 or so years that had passed, but they had never quite come around to be friends. As we go through Alma we see numerous references to the apostate Nephites being the ones that keep stirring the Lamanites up to fight the Nephites. When the sons of Mosiah preach, it is the Lamanites and few if any of the apostate Nephites who embrace the gospel. It is really interesting to read about these Lamanites, and equally interesting to see how angry people who leave or reject the gospel can become.