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	<title>Comments on: Sunday School Lesson #14</title>
	<atom:link href="http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/</link>
	<description>A blog focused on LDS scriptures and teaching</description>
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		<title>By: nhilton</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhilton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Note that Matt. 18:11 is omitted in most modern translations since primary sources indicate it is a later addition made to parallel Luke 19:10.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that Matt. 18:11 is omitted in most modern translations since primary sources indicate it is a later addition made to parallel Luke 19:10.</p>
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		<title>By: nhilton</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3218</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhilton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s interesting how Jesus in Matt. 17:27 tells Peter that when he opens the fish&#039;s mouth there will be enough money to pay the tax for both Peter and Jesus.  How does this relate to &quot;the sons (children) are exempt&quot; from paying tribute?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting how Jesus in Matt. 17:27 tells Peter that when he opens the fish&#8217;s mouth there will be enough money to pay the tax for both Peter and Jesus.  How does this relate to &#8220;the sons (children) are exempt&#8221; from paying tribute?</p>
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		<title>By: nhilton</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhilton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rex, this is awesome!  I only have the B&amp;W version of the windows &amp; this is so vivid...so REAL!  Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rex, this is awesome!  I only have the B&amp;W version of the windows &amp; this is so vivid&#8230;so REAL!  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another incarnation of Welch&#039;s article with color pop-up windows:

http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&amp;a=985]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another incarnation of Welch&#8217;s article with color pop-up windows:</p>
<p><a href="http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&#038;a=985" rel="nofollow">http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&#038;a=985</a></p>
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		<title>By: nhilton</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhilton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim, you&#039;re not a day late for MY lesson preparation.  Our ward has already had stake &amp; ward conferences so I&#039;m actually teaching this lesson this coming Sunday.  For some reason, my ward always seems to be behind everyone else&#039;s on the planet.  So, no need to repent...we all should be simply using your deeper thought process as a model for our own.  I mean, we can&#039;t always rely on YOU, right? :)  At some point we should be able to fly on our own?  However, I do appreciate your mentorship as I read your manner of studying the scriptures &amp; approaching the material for teaching.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, you&#8217;re not a day late for MY lesson preparation.  Our ward has already had stake &amp; ward conferences so I&#8217;m actually teaching this lesson this coming Sunday.  For some reason, my ward always seems to be behind everyone else&#8217;s on the planet.  So, no need to repent&#8230;we all should be simply using your deeper thought process as a model for our own.  I mean, we can&#8217;t always rely on YOU, right? :)  At some point we should be able to fly on our own?  However, I do appreciate your mentorship as I read your manner of studying the scriptures &amp; approaching the material for teaching.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3135</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim F.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[brianj, I didn&#039;t think you were being argumentative. You made a good point: there&#039;s nothing in the text to suggest fraud. I think we have to be careful about going too far beyond the text. Often asking about things that are not in the text is pointless. So I should at least have been more explicit that I was going beyond the text when I saw the implication of fraud.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brianj, I didn&#8217;t think you were being argumentative. You made a good point: there&#8217;s nothing in the text to suggest fraud. I think we have to be careful about going too far beyond the text. Often asking about things that are not in the text is pointless. So I should at least have been more explicit that I was going beyond the text when I saw the implication of fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: brianj</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brianj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nhilton: I wasn&#039;t ignoring your link when I linked to the Ensign article. I was actually typing my comment when yours was posted. Just so you know...

JimF: I see what you mean about the sum being inconceivable as a loan. I was thinking of the symbolism behind that. What has God &quot;loaned&quot; me that is likewise inconceivably priceless? The scriptures? The priesthood? My children? But I don&#039;t want to throw out your interpretation either: like I said, I think it adds meaning to the text.

As I read my initial comment, it sounds argumentative; it wasn&#039;t meant to. I meant it as---and should have explicitly written---a question; i.e. &quot;What might I be missing?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nhilton: I wasn&#8217;t ignoring your link when I linked to the Ensign article. I was actually typing my comment when yours was posted. Just so you know&#8230;</p>
<p>JimF: I see what you mean about the sum being inconceivable as a loan. I was thinking of the symbolism behind that. What has God &#8220;loaned&#8221; me that is likewise inconceivably priceless? The scriptures? The priesthood? My children? But I don&#8217;t want to throw out your interpretation either: like I said, I think it adds meaning to the text.</p>
<p>As I read my initial comment, it sounds argumentative; it wasn&#8217;t meant to. I meant it as&#8212;and should have explicitly written&#8212;a question; i.e. &#8220;What might I be missing?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim F.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt W, Thanks for the report. It is always good to hear that a lesson went well, especially when it comes with suggestions for what made it that way. 

nhilton, Sorry these were too late to be of help. I&#039;m trying to repent. Thanks for the link to Jack&#039;s article (a version of the piece that came out in the Ensign and to which BrianJ linked). 

BrianJ, I think you&#039;re right about the warning in verse 18. As for the implication of fraud: I agree that the reading isn&#039;t strong. I think that the size of the debt is what made me think it might be fraud. It seems inconceivable that the king could have loaned the servant that much money, and it is impossible that he could have earned it. So I opted for fraud. However, I agree that the interpretation is weak. 

I&#039;m especially touched by the point that the king in this story was incredibly wealthy and didn&#039;t care about his wealth, both of which are required for him to forgive such a debt. And thanks for your link to the Ensign article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt W, Thanks for the report. It is always good to hear that a lesson went well, especially when it comes with suggestions for what made it that way. </p>
<p>nhilton, Sorry these were too late to be of help. I&#8217;m trying to repent. Thanks for the link to Jack&#8217;s article (a version of the piece that came out in the Ensign and to which BrianJ linked). </p>
<p>BrianJ, I think you&#8217;re right about the warning in verse 18. As for the implication of fraud: I agree that the reading isn&#8217;t strong. I think that the size of the debt is what made me think it might be fraud. It seems inconceivable that the king could have loaned the servant that much money, and it is impossible that he could have earned it. So I opted for fraud. However, I agree that the interpretation is weak. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m especially touched by the point that the king in this story was incredibly wealthy and didn&#8217;t care about his wealth, both of which are required for him to forgive such a debt. And thanks for your link to the Ensign article.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BrianJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JimF: Thanks for the little connections you make between the parts of this chapter and to the previous chapter. They help to identify a kind of theme.

A few thoughts:

Matthew 18:18: I take this to be a warning against doing what Jesus just told them to do in v. 17. In other words, Jesus is saying, &quot;Here is how to excommunicate someone (v. 17), but make sure that you realize that when you loose/excommunicate someone on earth it has eternal consequences (v. 18).&quot;

Matthew 18:24: I&#039;m not sure I accept the implication that the servant was guilty of fraud. I see the reasoning behind that reading, but I don&#039;t see a strong case made for it in the text. The implication I get from v. 23 is that the books were being balances for all of the servants---like a year-end audit. If the debt was from fraud, then that adds meaning to the story, so I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a trivial point. What, besides the sheer size of the debt, implies fraud?

Along these lines, I read the size of the debt as making two points: 1) that the forgiveness that comes later is truly amazing, and the hardness toward the fellowservant was all the more absurd, and 2) that the king was wealthy enough to a) be able to make that sort of loan/have that kind of money stolen and b) the king could afford to wipe away a debt so large. The second point comes to me after thinking about Robert&#039;s post on judgment on these verses: even though the debt equalled the wealth of the entire world, the king in this story didn&#039;t need/care about the money. It got me, as I taught this lesson, thinking about King Benjamin and how we can never pay God back for anything.

Luke 10: In Feb 2007 there was a very nice article in the Ensign titled, &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=062a3c7842470110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;hideNav=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Good Samaritan: forgotten symbols&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JimF: Thanks for the little connections you make between the parts of this chapter and to the previous chapter. They help to identify a kind of theme.</p>
<p>A few thoughts:</p>
<p>Matthew 18:18: I take this to be a warning against doing what Jesus just told them to do in v. 17. In other words, Jesus is saying, &#8220;Here is how to excommunicate someone (v. 17), but make sure that you realize that when you loose/excommunicate someone on earth it has eternal consequences (v. 18).&#8221;</p>
<p>Matthew 18:24: I&#8217;m not sure I accept the implication that the servant was guilty of fraud. I see the reasoning behind that reading, but I don&#8217;t see a strong case made for it in the text. The implication I get from v. 23 is that the books were being balances for all of the servants&#8212;like a year-end audit. If the debt was from fraud, then that adds meaning to the story, so I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a trivial point. What, besides the sheer size of the debt, implies fraud?</p>
<p>Along these lines, I read the size of the debt as making two points: 1) that the forgiveness that comes later is truly amazing, and the hardness toward the fellowservant was all the more absurd, and 2) that the king was wealthy enough to a) be able to make that sort of loan/have that kind of money stolen and b) the king could afford to wipe away a debt so large. The second point comes to me after thinking about Robert&#8217;s post on judgment on these verses: even though the debt equalled the wealth of the entire world, the king in this story didn&#8217;t need/care about the money. It got me, as I taught this lesson, thinking about King Benjamin and how we can never pay God back for anything.</p>
<p>Luke 10: In Feb 2007 there was a very nice article in the Ensign titled, &#8220;<a href="http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=062a3c7842470110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;hideNav=1" rel="nofollow">The Good Samaritan: forgotten symbols</a>.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: nhilton</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhilton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim, thanks so much for your efforts toward Sunday School class.  Your notes help me so much!  Re: The Good Samaritan, I just want to put in a plug for a wonderful BYU Studies &lt;a href=&quot;http://byustudies.byu.edu/Products/MoreInfoPage/MoreInfo.aspx?Type=7&amp;ProdID=49&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, thanks so much for your efforts toward Sunday School class.  Your notes help me so much!  Re: The Good Samaritan, I just want to put in a plug for a wonderful BYU Studies <a href="http://byustudies.byu.edu/Products/MoreInfoPage/MoreInfo.aspx?Type=7&amp;ProdID=49" rel="nofollow">article</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3112</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2007/04/22/sunday-school-lesson-14/#comment-3112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For anyone interested, this was one of the more successful lessons I&#039;ve had with the teenaged youth. We focused on the difference between being childish and childlike. (As in Christ saying be as a Child and paul putting away childish things.)

We then discussed the key scriptures involved and in the end we tied up the whole conversation of humility, forgiveness, and charity by applying the model of Faith in James, &quot;__________without works is dead.&quot; We as a class analyzed the above concepts in this light, and found the statement true in all instances. 

Finally we discussed the inherrent risk involved in all of these and the necessity of risk in going forward in existence. 

All in all, I felt like we all agreed on the fundamental principles involved and have a good foundation to go forward.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone interested, this was one of the more successful lessons I&#8217;ve had with the teenaged youth. We focused on the difference between being childish and childlike. (As in Christ saying be as a Child and paul putting away childish things.)</p>
<p>We then discussed the key scriptures involved and in the end we tied up the whole conversation of humility, forgiveness, and charity by applying the model of Faith in James, &#8220;__________without works is dead.&#8221; We as a class analyzed the above concepts in this light, and found the statement true in all instances. </p>
<p>Finally we discussed the inherrent risk involved in all of these and the necessity of risk in going forward in existence. </p>
<p>All in all, I felt like we all agreed on the fundamental principles involved and have a good foundation to go forward.</p>
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