Matthew
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Robert C.
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BrianJ
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Kevin Barney
Jim F.
nhilton
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Karl D.
KarenState of the blog: one month makeover
Posted by Robert C. on January 27, 2007
As this blog approaches its one-month birthday, we made a few changes to the blog’s look (actually, I deserve pretty much all of the blame for this set of changes, though Matthew gets credit for setting everything up initially). If you have any suggestions for improvement on the blog’s look or, more importantly, the blog’s content, future directions, etc., this thread is a good opportunity to let us know. First, let me ramble a bit about the purpose and intent of the Feast blog and the Feast wiki, then I’ll give a few technical details about the current look of the blog and where I see things going in the future.
Wiki beginnings. As I understand it, the Feast wiki began almost two years ago when Matthew Faulconer had a vision for creating an online community and enduring resource for LDS scripture study. Although blogs were fast becoming all the rage at that time, Matthew favored a wiki format for several reasons (see here for his own explanation). Upon learning about the project, I became immediately excited. Although the development of the growth of the bloggernacle has been exciting for me to see, I was most interested in finding material that would help enrich my personal scripture study. Jim F.’s SS notes were the most helpful resource I had found in this respect before finding the wiki. Occassionally, I would stumble on other scripturally-themed blog posts, but since my primary interest was in scripture study, it was frustrating to have to read through a lot of stuff that I was less interested in to find the material I was most interested in.
The attraction of the wiki for me is (1) it is focused specifically on the scriptures, and (2) it is organized in a way that is naturally indexed by scripture passage so when I am studying a particular passage it is easy to find information (commentary, links and discussion) on that passage. Since most pages are still blank at the wiki, it will probably be several years before the wiki becomes a good resource for looking up info on a random passage, but I think it will eventually become a very useful resource for studying any passage of scripture (esp. for LDS scripture because there aren’t that many resources out there that looking carefully at the text, particularly on the web…). In the meantime, I find it’s a great place to work out my own thoughts on particular passages, bouncing ideas off others, and getting help on questions I have (I’ll probably go back to posting my SS thoughts on the wiki and link to them on Jim’s SS lessons because I think in the long run this is more useful). We all know it takes a bit to get use to editing wiki pages, so if you are shy about trying things or asking questions there, please ask away on this thread. Suggestions for improving the wiki are also very welcome.
Purpose of the blog. On my view, the purpose of the blog is to complement the wiki. Blogs are probably more familiar to more people and, since our goal is primarily about feasting on the word of God, with the wiki as a means-to-that end, we thought we would try a blog to see if others find it helpful. Also, we thought meta-topics such as “how to study” and “how to teach” would be more appropriate on the blog than on the wiki which is focused on the text itself.
Blog’s makeover. Now, about the look of the blog. Eventually, I think Matthew is going to incorporate the blog and the wiki in a more sophisticated way. In the meantime, we wanted something to get us up-and-running quickly, but had a bit more flexibility than blogger. WordPress.com is what we’re using for now and it has somewhat limited flexibility. I listed a few of my pet peeves with the earlier theme we were using (called “Shocking Blue and Green”) here, as well as some of my thinking in changing to this theme. We can change a few things, but once we pick a theme, there are only a few options we have (for example, color). If anyone has any suggestions or pet peeves regarding the layout, feel free to comment on this thread or email us at fZeZaZsZtZbZlZoZg@gmail.com (without the Z’s).
Joe Spencer said
I personally need to be better about linking from the blog to the wiki. Would it be worth asking a few people to transfer important/interesting material to the wiki?
nhilton said
I like the look better, easier on the eyes. You guys have put in a lot of effort that has blessed me. Thank you.
nhilton said
Are you planning to give a face-lift to the other linked FUTW sites, mainly by removing that strange fire logo (I wondered what I had linked to when I first visited & it had that logo of fire). Sorry if that was like a special art effort on anyone’s part. It looked fine, just kinda scary when linked with religion–for what it’s worth OR NOT.
John said
I appreciate the wider columns, but the extra intense white/blue is not so easy on the eyes. Do you plan to revamp the wiki pages to more closely mimic the blog theme? (I hope so. The FUTW “flame” logo makes me think of fast cars and racing.)
Matthew said
Hey Robert, thanks for the update and thanks for all your work on getting a better them in place.
All, Here are some additional details on plans for the site. Comments, suggestions/other ideas are encouraged.
Re: Look and feel.
I am going to be working to make the blog and the wiki look and feel more like each other. I know very little about this so if anyone has some design expertise that could help, it would be much appreciated. Let me know. If not I’ll muddle through–but the one thing I really can’t do is the images. About the most I can do is draw a few lines in the free paint program that comes with Windows. Some blog themes have a banner image at the top, and wikis which use mediawiki typically have a square image in the top-left.
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Which brings me to the history of the fire image on the wiki. For a long time there was a message on the wiki looking for someone to create a logo. Someone did (sorry, I forget the name) but we never saw the person again. I have gotten used to it over time, but I would love it if others would submit some choices. Maybe we could have a vote. The requirements that I have for the image are: (Image format: PNG, should be indexed if transparency is used. Size: 135px width, 135-150px height.) The fact that I don’t even know about the image format PNG tells a lot about my ability to make my own.
Re: wiki site updgrade
Soon the wiki site will be updating to a newer version of the mediawiki software. At that point there will be some new features on the wiki–my favorites are a) a less confusing login screen and b) a better ability to filter the recent changes page. Look for that coming soon.
Robert C. said
John #4: Are you saying that having three columns with color-white-color backgrounds is hard on the eyes in general, or that the blue in this scheme is hard on the eyes? Here is the BCC blog which has three columns of dark-white-dark, is that better or worse on your view? Unfortunately, I don’t think I can change the blue color of the columns with this theme (and I like the functionality and flexibility of these theme…).
I changed the color scheme of my test blog to what they call black (there are many bright color choices…) so you can get a sense of what I can easily change, but you’ll see the blue columns are still blue–but I’ll play with this a bit more and see if I can’t figure out how to just make all columns white b/c I think I agree that the color contrast is harder on the eyes than an all white page.
brianj said
I love the new layout here and I am so grateful for all of your (Matthew and Robert) work on it. Three columns is a must. I like blue.
One feature I would really like to see: personalized recent comments. To get an idea what I mean, go over to Mormon Mentality. DKL (I think) wrote some code that allows users to filter the recent comments to only those threads where one has commented. I like this because then when I don’t check the blog for a few days, I can still quickly find out if there are any new comments on the threads I am following.
I hope some day to participate in the wiki, but I find it too intimidating. I probably can’t articulate all of my reasons (and I probably don’t even realize all of them), but one example is the word exegesis: the first time I had ever seen the word was when I visited the wiki–and I’m still not sure how to pronounce it! But maybe that intimidation is a good thing: you want the wiki to be scholarly (right?).
Matthew said
I DON’T want the wiki to be intimidating. It is true that a lot of people have no clue what exegesis means and that does put people off. What should we change it to? The goal would be to use a different word (or words) that convey the same meaning.
Robert C. said
Here are some alternative words to exegesis that I’ve seen in commentary books: comments, discussion, explanation. I think explanation is the best of these three for the purposes of the wiki.
One thing I’m hoping to work on is a one-page quick-start page that helps new users get up and running using the wiki. I think part of what’s happened is that b/c wikis are somewhat complex, and b/c the help pages are somewhat complex, we’ve attracted users who like (or are at least comfortable with) that complexity, and so the commentary tends to reflect that, which makes things unattractive to those who don’t want to work through that complexity….
nhilton said
PNG = Portable Network Graphics Font. I’d be happy to put a BIT of time into a new logo if others were willing to make suggestions. I’m a professional illustrator, if that means anything…maybe instills an iota of confidence? : )
nhilton said
BrianJ, RE: exegesis, I had the same response. Wondering “How stupid am I?” But that’s not an unusual thought for me. I read the linked article by Eric Huntsman on Exegisis & liked his definition: to “lead out.” I like this because it creates a mental picture for of pulling a thread from an intricately woven tapestry, following the thread to see where it comes from or leads to. The oposite of exegesis is eisegesis = “reading in.” Per Huntsman, too often we read into a passage of scripture what we THINK it means based on our own bias. Exegesis is intended to circumvent our bias and get to the root of the original meaning. Thus, I like the word exegesis being used in the wiki because it has a deeper meaning than “explanation.”
Matthew said
Nhilton #10, PLEASE!
All, let’s give some thought into good suggestions for Nhilton. It isn’t everyday we get an offer like this!!!
BrianJ said
I think what Robert is planning (#9) is a good idea; I’m excited to see the page. I’ll mention one more hurdle I have with the wiki: I worry that what I might post is nonsense. I know there are some discussion pages, but I’m not quite sure how to use those or even find them sometimes. I have the same concern when I post on a blog, but it doesn’t stop me–I guess that betrays my feelings about blogs vs wikis (the former being more suited to nonsense, or at least more forgiving of it).
Along the same lines, the intimidation is with the format (I’m afraid I wouldn’t have the time to figure it out) but mostly with the content. I use the wiki as a resource. The regular contributors to the wiki quote from Atler, Barker, Kierkegaard, distinguish between philosophical terms I haven’t ever heard of, and so on (Dammit Jim, I’m a zoologist, not a philosopher!). PLEASE don’t get me wrong: the scholarly feel of the wiki is great, but it can have the effect as scholarly blogs: people lurk on blogs because they are afraid to “say something stupid.”
These are actually the reasons I was so excited about contributng to this Feast-associated blog.
BrianJ said
Nhilton, #11: I looked up “exegesis” a long time ago (when I first encountered it at the wiki), and my working definition for it has been “explanation.” But I appreciate your exegesis of the word and I agree that it provides a deeper meaning. (Of course, I still don’t know how to pronounce it!) Because of that deeper meaning, I would vote to keep using it on the wiki, but perhaps add some parenthetical definition or link-out, like this:
Exegesis (what’s this? see here)
And then link to a definition like the one you use.
And I’ll be thinking of some ideas for a logo.
nhilton said
BrianJ, I concur with all your comments.
I feel VERY uncomfortable posting anything on the wiki that someone else might actually believe & quote in a class somewhere…re:your “know your students…” Having it all anonymous makes it even more “authoratative.” It appears to the casual viewer that the exegesis is more than just common people posting their take on the scripture. I’m comfortable with interpretations as long as I know who to credit them to.
I like the link to “exegesis” idea. That would have served me well at the get go. Maybe links to all jargin would be helpful and aid people in their assimilation to the wiki/blog.
The more people, the more input, the more perspective. It’s nice to have a close-knit group discussion, but it can become inbred over time.
Karl D. said
That is why I like the Mariam-Webster Online. It, of course, gives the pronunciation phonetically, but you can also listen to an audio clip of the word being pronounced.
Joe Spencer said
In the end, I’d like to stick with “exegesis,” though I still would (after all this time) appreciate a distinction between “exegesis” and “hermeneutics” to be worked into the wiki (collapsing “exegesis” and “lexical notes” into one section and making the missing third section “hermeneutics” or “interpretation”). That’s me though.
I would hope that no one steers clear of posting anything on the wiki. Please, please, please everyone post things there. There is a lot of room for many different approaches there. The point of the wiki is not to promote the point of view of a few “erudite” (did someone really call us “erudite”?) thinkers, but to promote a community that weaves together the “erudite” with the “non-erudite” in a perfect blend. I try to approach the wiki with a hope that every word I write will be considered silly by someone else (though I also hope others will have the charity to teach me, and not to ridicule me or call me a blasphemer–or a speculator), and I would hope that everyone who posts on the wiki would do so. The point in writing is to get something on there to respond to, not to write up a finished product. Long live the wiki, but we need many more voices there yet (and I think it is wonderful that it is made up, for now, of so many non-erudite thinkers, as erudite as some of us might seem).
As for a logo… how about Cookie Monster chomping away at the Book of Mormon?
More seriously, what of the angel that was to be on the Nauvoo temple, the sideways angel with the trumpet and the book? That would be kind of cool.
douglashunter said
Concerning the look of the blog. I like this look a lot better, there was too little tonal / color contrast in the previous scheme which made it very difficult to read things such as who wrote the entry etc.
douglashunter said
Also I think it might be good to give more visual weight to the catagories, since that is a navagation device, it seems to me that it should draw the eye more than the recent comments for example.
Robert C. said
BrianJ #7: Thanks for the heads up on Mormon Mentality’s customizable Recent Comments tool–I think that’s super handy so when we upgrade the blog we’ll definitely have to try to get something like that.
Douglas #19: Good idea. A good chance I can’t increase the heading size, but I can increase the font-size for the categories. I’ll start playing with that.
Everyone else: Thanks for the other very helpful suggestions and feedback. Matthew’s upgrading some things on the wiki so it might be down and/or slow a bit the next few days, but hopefully we can start implementing some of these suggestions over the next few weeks.
nhilton said
What about an “applications” column where people can post their take on how the scripture applies to their life, similar to my comment #2 at click here for link to post.
nhilton said
Well, my post link didn’t work…but you’ll find it at “State of the Blog…”[Fixed!]Robert C. said
nhilton #21: Double check that I linked to the right comment, it’s on the “can of worms” thread not the “state of the blog” thread.
We’ve actually discussed an “applications” column or section before. I think this is definitely worth considering as we rethink the format and structure of the wiki. For now, the best thing to do is to post personal thoughts, impressions, etc. on the discussion/talk page which exists “behind” every main commentary page.
douglashunter said
One draw back to the new layout is that it appears that we can not edit comments after they have been posted. I’m pretty sure we could do this before couldn’t we?
Robert C. said
Douglas #24: There’s a little “e” at the end of the time stamp on each comment that I see when I’m logged in correctly (for some reason I can only get this to work on my home computer, not my school/work computer–but I had this problem before the theme change…). Clicking this “e” will let you edit the comment.
douglashunter said
Even when logged in correctly the ‘e’ is not to be found at the end of my timestamp.
BrianJ said
Robert and Douglas: I think you are seeing the hierarchy of permissions. I can only edit the posts that I write, and I can only edit the comments on those posts. Robert has the highest level of permissions on the blog, so he can edit whatever he wants (even your DNA, so be careful). It’s just a matter of increasing permissions for Douglas and me. (I think)
nhilton said
I just printed Jim’s Sunday School Lesson #5, as I’ve done with past lessons, and since the blog re-make it prints out in microscopic, centered column, print. I’ll literally need a magnifying glass to read it. Ugh. What’s up with that?
John said
exitJesus: what ‘exegesis’ sounds like when I explain it to my friends at church.
Stick with it; the term is technically correct, although sounds funny to the untrained ear.
More Suggestions
I really would like to see a new tab to join “Home” and “About” — called “Glossary” or something more technical. There are alot of very technical (with advanced educational and theological backgrounds) people who contribute to this site, and knowing what they are trying to say is not always easy.
My eyes suffer primarily because of my high-intensity LCD screen at home. I’ve noticed a softening of the color scheme, which I heartily appreciate.
Still noticing some issues with whitespace in comments. The edit box (into which I am even now typing) encourages blank lines between paragraphs, but the layout assumes no blank lines and pads the paragraph top with about 6pt of extra space. The end product is…not the best.
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/whitespace
Robert C. said
BrianJ #27: Thanks for the tip on my powers as a blog-demigod. I’m sure Matthew would be happy to give anyone who wants it more power over the blog (and more responsibility for helping with improvements!).
nhilton #28: I think there’s a “shrink the font” line in the css file which probably is causing this problem, though I double checked and for me the pages print out at a reasonable size (though perhaps a bit smaller than is comfortable). I’ll look into this–in the meantime, I recommend simply copying the post into Word or something and doing a little editing (this should make the columns wider too so it doesn’t take a million pages to print, though I noticed the text comes up in 8 point font in Word, so you’ll probably want to increase that; using CTRL-A to select all for these changes is a handy shortcut in Windows…).
John #29: I agree that the whitespacing is annoying, I’ll see if I can’t fix that. And I think your glossary idea is a good one. I’m only a level 1 (or less) blog user so I’m not sure I’ll be able to figure out how to add an extra horizontal tab, but we could at least add a link to, say, a wiki page with some useful hermeneutical terms on it (or maybe add a blurb and some links on the About page…).
Matthew said
Currently I set Robert and myself as administrators. I just added BrianJ as one. If you aren’t an administrator and want to be one just send me an e-mail. The advantage of being an administrator is more power to do stuff on the site. The disadvantage is you have to be a little more careful with experimentation so as not to mess anything up. For example, an administrator could move the site from its current URL–ouch.
Robert C. said
I played with the margins and spacing a little. I think I improved the margins (per John’s #20 suggestion), but I don’t really know what I’m doing so let me know if you think something looks funny or something isn’t working in your browser. (I already know the navigation links at the bottom sometimes indent weird, but I haven’t been able to fix that….)
brianj said
Robert: just wondering if you check your format changes in both IE and Firefox (and Safari, if available). I use all three and often find significant formatting problems in one of the three on the blogs I visit.
This blog looks great on all of them though.
Robert C. said
Brian, I actually use Maxthon which I like b/c of some features that make bookmarking easier, and it lets me define and open groups of pages that I use frequently. It is supposedly 100% compatible with IE. Thanks for the spur to check in Firefox, I just noticed a glitch (on this page and the heading’s messed up for me in Firefox, but not Maxthon/IE…). I’m too lazy to install and check Safari, Opera, etc. (By the way, if you’re in the market for new browsers, I tried iRider once and thought it much easier to use than a multi-tabbed browser–basically it allows for “subtabs” in a way that makes it much easier to keep track of different groups of pages, I’m just already to customized in Maxthon to make the switch.)
(I also just realized that “zooming the font size” in IE really messes up the categories; I probably won’t bother trying to fix these smaller glitches since we’ll probably move off wordpress.com eventually.)
nhilton said
I really like the “view” box at BCC that allows you to see what your post will look like without the html coding once you submit the comment. It has saved me from making easy mistakes in my coding.
nhilton said
Additionally, I guess someone is re-working this site because the left & right columns are really messed up such that I can’t even see recent posts & such. I hope it gets fixed soon. Thanks to whomever is working on that. : )